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This topic contains 6 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  dflow 1 month, 1 week ago.

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  • #760

    Alex
    Keymaster

    Bonjour à tous!

    Time to time we (by turn) raise question about simulators of civil aviation like X-Plane or FSX, or P3D.  I decided to start a discussion about civil aviation here.

    Intro

    As you know I used x-plane for training visual navigation near my small airfield. I did it because I had some problems to find our aifield very fast. And it helped a lot! Next time I demonstrated that I can find the airfiled very fast.

    After this event some our pilots become interested in X-Plane and some of them even tried this sim. If we all interesting in aviation we can try to use x-plane too. At least we can discuss about it. And please don’t forget about our main goal if you’ve forgot about it please go here and read.

    Actually, I took part in online flights some years ago and I would say if you flying alone it is really boring. But if you are part of community – it could be fun.

    WHY X-PLANE AND NOT FSX OR P3D?

    P3D or developped old FSX is good simulator but X-plane has unique feature – you can install a photoscenery by yourself directly from google photos of the earth. Furthemore, you can “play” with layers and move this huge photo of the earth lower or higher of other layers. As I said I trained with installed photoscenery for visual navigation and it works.
    How to install phoscenery you can watch here:

     

    It is not difficult but takes lot of time – depends how large surface you will create.

    CIVIL AVIATION IN THE INTERNET

    Some of combat sims’ players can think that civil aviation is not popular in the internet as multiplayer game – it is myth! There are two huge “online environment”:

    1. VATSIM
    2. IVAO

    Why I called them as an “envinonment” because you can use different programs (X-Plane, FSX, Prepar 3D) for flying in VATSIM or in IVAO. There are many discussions and argues how they differ from each other and what is the best. My opinion is that VATSIM more strong acording flight rules.

    About quantity of players, please look at screenshots:

    and Ivao:

    As you see at the same time, on a working day, each network has more than half-thousand pilots and controllers online! DCS and Il-2 Sturmovik together even cannot dream about this 😉 We don’t talk about War Thunder because we are talking about really advanced virtual pilots. Look at the picture below:

    Some of players take part as pilots others as controllers. Yes, we are talking about advanced virtual pilots because for flying in these two networks they should at least know:

    • VFR and IFR internationa rules
    • Radio communication rules
    • An aircraft they used
    • Routes (high and low)
    • Take off and approaching procedures (they are special routes for each airport)
    • etc…

    If you ask a virtual pilot who is member of VATSIM how to fly from this place to another – he will demonstrate knowledge of real civil aviation about terminals zones, altitude, special maps, GPS procedure, flight application, ATIS, how to keep radio communication. Cool isn’t it?

    WHAT WE CAN DO IN VATSIM?

    FLIGHT BY CREW!!!

    Yes, it is possible! For x-plane people usually use a special program like SmartCopilot.

    Watch how it works (here is old x-plane with poor graphic):

    Or watch “a crew in the action”:

     

    VATSIM AIRLINES

    We can create our small airlines. You can find examples HERE

    VATSIM’S EVENTS

    To make their life more colorful they create their own events. Once I saw an events to resque operation – a small plane crashed on the north of Quebec and playes should find it.

    Events marked by a red flag on the map like this:

    Look at this interesting event:

    Or you can find events on VATSIM SITE HERE.

    OUR OWN EVENTS – JUST SOME IDEAS

    If we will fly by crew we can for example show some interesting places in you area! Thanks that we can install photographic lanshaft or a scenery like this.

    Or even show your area or something interesting after installing photoscenery.

     

    [caption id="attachment_765" align="aligncenter" width="847"] This is area where I live (South Shore of Montreal)[/caption]

    B17 neear my town (photoscenery is installed), note at the left engine. I stopped it and propeller is feathered.

    Many years ago I worked in Siberian (Yakutia) civil aviation archive for a writer. He wrote a book about Lend Lise. There was a way through Siberia where American and Russian pilots delivered many American planes. We can repeat this flight from Fairbanks to Yakutsk and so forth.

    OTHER ADVANTAGES

    1. Definitely we will get now people
    2. In contrast of DCS (BS server for example), we can fly anytime because enemies no needed.
    3. In comparison with DCS – expences are not so significant (check payware models here).
    4. In contrast of DCS you can fly around the world including your area.
    5. A flight can be long or short, VFR or IFR
    6. We can use (and for crew) different planes from Cessna 172 to Boing 747
    7. Getting advantage knowledge about aviation
    8. Who knows maybe we need somethimes change war to peace 🙂

    Disadvantages:

    1. Most of us are very busy to take part in additional simulator
    2. It will take a lot of time!
    3. We should study a lot – at least flight rules
    4. This project can split our small community
    5. Additional spending money – X-plane, smartcopilot, maybe some models of aircraft or a scenery.

     

    THIS PROJECT JUST MY THOUGHTS AND I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR YOUR OPINION ABOUT THIS

  • #768

    andy1966
    Participant

    I have been flying X plane some lately, I finally got it to work, and it seems excellent for real-world procedures I.E., navigation, IRL airport procedures, formation station keeping, plus just the cool aspect to fly multiplayer in the same A/C, that are transferable to DCS also. The airport list is impressive, my local county airport (Delaware Air Park)  is about 5 minutes from my house, Dover AFB (KDOV) is 20 minutes south and the airport in Warrenton,  Virginia, that my uncle had his shop at (KHWY), are all included. I down loaded North America, South America, Europe, and Western Russia I haven’t done much flying yet, (maybe two hrs. ) I am still learning how to file a flight plan… I figured out how to file a flight plan from Dover AFB to Rotterdam, then got in a 747, I surprised myself when I was able to take off on the first try! (I was on the runway hot), I was impressed. So I’m flying along in my 747, and Washington Central keeps telling me to squawk 1466, I believe it was,… but… I know about squawk,…. but… I don’t know how to use the transponder in the 747 yet…. they got really persistent…. I was getting worried…then I remember it was a SIM… so, yes the reality factor is there. That was when I tried to see what a 747 would do in a power on stall…

    Alex and Red and I were online the other day, and we spent more time looking for, and trying to log onto DCS servers, then we spent flying. it was frustrating when you don’t have much time. I think X-plane would do good in a pinch, and for training, and it would help us to know each other better maybe, to fly around our hometowns, flying formation in beech Barons, or B-17s or ferrying supplies over the Hump in a DC-3, would be awesome, the Idea Alex had of the ferry flights to Russia through Siberia, from Alaska(there were many)….very interesting concepts, and all for the cost of one DCS module to start. As I have stated before though, DCS is my first love.

    I still haven’t figured how to use the transponders yet.

     

     

  • #770

    andy1966
    Participant

    Briefly, Well said! I agree. The combat in DCS is not available in X-plane. However there are things in X-Plane that are not available in DCS. My love is for aircraft, not combat, so to say. But DCS has such better FM that I am spoiled though! And yes P-39 and P-61 would be wonderful to be able to fly.

  • #806

    Alex
    Keymaster

    I have a time for writing (on my security work 🙂 ), so I decided continue speaking about civil aviation. Thank you Andy and Red October for your honest opinion. I full agree with you, just couple notes…

    We can study them before they will appear in DCS.

    But DCS has much better FM model…

    Why do you think that DCS have the best flight model? Flight model’s quality is depends on concrete module in DCS as well as in X-plane.

    Spitfire in DCS is extremely unstable. I even cannot use trimmer effectively. Despite my Sitek Cessna Wheel trim is adjusted + curves + death zones – small movement and aircraft goes up or down. It resemble like the plane has wrongly moved the center of gravity toward its back. I also have alot questions about Spitfire take off and landing.

    Also I found in memoires, “We scrambled to intercept a high-flying Me 109 on a recce. … I was in a Spitfire VII, which had a pressure cabin, and climbed smartly up to 32,000 ft and spotted a vapour trail at “12 o’clock”. We got to 38,000 ft, as this aircraft was phenomenal – it had pointy wingtips. The Hun turned and dived to starboard at an indicated airspeed of 500 mph. I had two squirts at 1000 yards then my No 2 passed and closed to 300 yards in the stern, but missed – in fact his guns failed to fire. I then …”. I am not sure that we can fly and dive in DCS like this.

    Mig-21’s behavior when it touches the runway during landing is differ from described in official documents. Danger BLC phenomenon (also during landing) doesn’t exist in DCS 🙂  Su-25 FM is beyond critic – I cannot say it flies, I would say it moves in the space. Just try to fly on it…

    Do you know that missile control in Mig-21 is far from reality as well as navigation system in Su-25? (Maybe they changed Su-25 I just did not try it in last couple  years). Do you know that developpers make radars and missiles much better than they are on NATO modern aircrafts

  • #807

    Alex
    Keymaster

    Now about x-plane .

    In DCS we have few modules but in X-plane there are hundreds aircrafts but only few of them are good.  Not all payware  aircrafts are good some of them are garbage. You should spend a lot of time to find best models and tools.

    I think that x-plane can be just another independent sim we can use.  It will be not 1st neither 2nd sim – just another.  There won’t be obligations for everyone – some of us will use DCS and vice versa. For example DCS sometime gives me additional stress you know combat flight  on Mig-21. .. Well I can have more relaxed flight with someone in the same aircraft. We can talk during flight,  drink beer,  leave the computer for answer call bc other person has control too.

    For avoiding mix of feeling /control habits with DCS , in X-plane we can use minimum two engine plane.

  • #888

    dflow
    Moderator

    allright gentlemen!
    i cannot put up more items to your collection of pros and cons here!
    indeed flying in x-plane will have some relaxing effect and of course it will be interesting if we fly over the other ones homes etc.

    currently i have to say i will wait for a sale in il2 and believe to see us there a bit more than in x-plane.
    maybe there will be a sale soon, if not, i think i’ll buy it soon enough (new month, new money 😉 )

    from my point of view we would just need a collection of mods / sites all would use.
    sites in sense of: are we flying on vatsim?
    which mods should be used by all?

    i don’t see a problem for time usage / deviding it … as long as others are flying in company, it is as good as hunting in dcs or il2

    currently though, i am waiting for a il2 sale … 😉

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